Safari 3 beta impressions

As I noted the other day in Safari now officially available for Windows, Apple has released a public beta of Safari 3 for Mac OS X and Windows.

I’ve been using the beta since then, both in my primary working environment, which is Mac OS X, and on Windows XP, which I use for browser testing. Here are my impressions so far.

New features

Safari 3 contains a number of new features that are either useful to the casual web surfer, great tools for web developers, or more or less eye candy. Here’s what I’ve noticed so far:

  • Clickable form labels. A long overdue feature that has been in most other browsers forever is that you can click on a form controls associated label text to activate the control. This is most useful for radio buttons and checkboxes since it makes the clickable area much larger. It does require that forms have been marked up correctly though.
  • Web Inspector. Not as powerful as the Firebug extension for Firefox is, but still very useful for troubleshooting and bughunting, is the Web Inspector. It has been available in WebKit nightly builds for a long time, but now it’s included in Safari as well. Here’s a screenshot:

    The Web Inspector provides information about the DOM and styling of HTML elements.

    The Web Inspector is not available in the Windows version. Maybe that is planned for a future release.

  • Reset font size. After using Cmd-+ to increase text size, you can now press Cmd-0 to reset it to 100%.
  • Tab reordering. Got your tabs in the wrong order? Rearrange them by dragging.
  • Save As… You can now choose where to save images or web pages that you save by right-clicking.
  • Inline Find. Safari now has a search feature similar to the one in Firefox, except sexier.
  • Resizable textareas. Need a bigger box to type your comment? No problem. Just grab the lower right corner and resize it until you have enough room for whatever you are typing. I love love love this feature!
  • Form saver. Not sure what to call this one, but if you’re on a page that contains a form and start typing into a text input, the window’s close button gets a dot in it to indicate that content on the page has changed, just like when you’re editing any kind of document in Mac OS X. When you try to close a tab or window with changed form content, a dialog is displayed that asks you to confirm if you really want to close the tab or window. Excellent. However, it would be even better if it also worked with the back and forward buttons and when following links from the page.
  • Location field searching. Well, almost. I can’t count the number of times I’ve accidentally typed a search string into the location field instead of the search field. It happens because when I quickly want to search for something, I open a new tab and hit the tab key to place focus in the search field. Well, sometimes I half-miss the tab key and type my search string in the location field, hit enter and get told that “Safari can’t find the server”. In Safari 3, the error page also contains a search field with the text you typed pre-entered, so you just have to hit enter again to perform the Google search. Nothing revolutionary, but it will save me a couple of seconds here and there.
  • More styling options for form controls. Unfortunately Safari 3 allows more styling of form controls with CSS. I say unfortunately because Safari has been something of a haven for those of us who don’t like having our Web browsing experience interrupted by badly styled form controls. How about giving users the option to disallow styling of form controls?

I’m sure there’s more.

Incompatibilities and problems

I have only found two problems with the Mac OS X version of Safari 3 beta:

  • Extensions break. If you use any extensions to Safari, they may stop working. This is probably only a temporary problem which will go away as soon as the extension developers have made updates available. The extensions I had to remove were SafariStand, Safari Tidy, Taboo, and SafariSource. Inquisitor works though.
  • Closing windows can be difficult. Windows have to be closed by JavaScript. Clicking the close button in the upper left corner of the window or pressing Cmd-W does not work. You have to type javascript:window.close() into the location field in order to close a window. This only seems to be a problem in the Mac version.

Considering that we’re talking about beta software it’s likely that there are other problems, but these are the only ones I have noticed.

Making Safari for Windows work

As I noted in my original post about Safari 3, I had some trouble launching the beta on Windows XP. Or rather it wouldn’t launch at all, but immediately quit with a message saying that Safari had encountered a problem and had to close.

After reading the Apple support forums for a while I found the solution in the thread Safari 3 crashes everytime it opens: create a new Windows account. Once I did that, Safari launched without any problems.

The reason for me having to create a new Windows account is, from what I have read and which sounds quite likely, that I was using an account whose name contained a non-ascii character. I have encountered similar localisation (or lack of it) slip-ups many times over the years, from many different software vendors. Don’t they know that there are over six billion people in this world whose native language is not English?

Others have reported problems with missing text in Safari for Windows. That didn’t happen to me, but I’m running a really clean copy of Windows XP since I only use it for browser testing. After looking around some more in Apple’s support forum it seems likely that the missing text is caused by font problems, as discussed in Safari 3 Beta for Windows - app text not showing.

Safari for Windows impressions

Once I managed to get Safari up and running on Windows, I was very surprised to see that Apple had ported much more than just the rendering engine to Windows. Safari includes most of the Mac OS X look, including scrollbars, form controls, Lucida Grande (the Mac OS X system font), and even the text anti-aliasing that Mac OS X uses.

I can understand if all of that comes as a bit of a shock to Windows users trying out Safari. Personally I would have preferred to see Safari respect windows GUI guidelines and conventions. I think it would have made it easier for Safari to be accepted by many Windows users.

When looking at how Safari for Windows renders Web pages, I didn’t encounter any problems at all. As far as I can tell from my testing, it displays Web sites exactly the same as the Mac OS X version. And that’s what I expected, since as far as I understand they both use the same (or almost same) version of WebKit. By the way, WebKit Nightly Builds are now available for both Mac and Windows.

Safari for Windows is also very, very fast, just like Apple boasts on their website.

If I used Windows on a regular basis, Safari would no doubt be my browser of choice.

A great release with unfortunate lack of i18n QA

Overall I find Safari 3 beta to be a stable release. The Mac OS X version has worked very well for me so far. Once I removed the incompatible extensions Safari has not crashed or otherwise malfunctioned.

The Windows release is the biggest news about Safari 3, and what everyone is talking about. With that in mind, it’s very unfortunate that Apple fell into the trap that so many companies in English-speaking countries do – forgetting to QA on non-English language systems.

I hope they will get the problems fixed ASAP so more people can give Safari a try. It really is a very good browser.

Posted on June 14, 2007 in Browsers, Mac

Comments

  1. Seems like forms are stylable too from now on (even drop down lists), next to that there is another new feature, namely the possibility to bookmark multiple tabs at one. Clicking it in your bookmarks bar will open up the 3 tabs. Also, they added the possibility to reopen the last closed windows. Btw, the source view also has the new inline find :)

  2. Hey, Safari Tidy has an update out already (actually came out yesterday)

    Saft has a beta for a beta (?!?!) for those using that…

    Awaiting updates on the rest

  3. Even though my experience has been a little buggy so far i absolutely love playing around with multiple background-images!

    When will the others catch up?

  4. June 14, 2007 by Alexis

    How many Safari add-ons do you have installed? Did you notice any RAM usage differences in Safari 3 beta compared to Safari 2?

    I had initial problems with Safari 3 beta and iChat (oddly enough), but I had the same problems with Safari eating up a ridiculous amount of RAM. You experience anything like that?

  5. June 14, 2007 by Jonathan

    Did you notice that you can also dock a window as a tab in another window and “extract” tabs to their own windows, as well as moving tabs between windows? If so, you forgot to mention it as new in the post. I think this is a great feature, especially when I have lots of tabs open and need to restructure them to not get lost.

  6. June 14, 2007 by j.a.

    It doesn’t work so good for me, I run it on XP. Safari does not show certain headlines and text. It’s just blank on the screen.

  7. June 14, 2007 by Roger Johansson (Author comment)

    Lode: Ah, I knew I’d forgotten something. I added more stylable form controls to the list of news.

    Ben: Good to see the extension developers are working on it :-).

    Alexis: SafariStand, Safari Tidy, SafariSource, Inquisitor… I think that’s all of them. I have no idea about RAM usage.

    Jonathan: Nope, I didn’t notice that. How does it work?

  8. I installed Safari on Windows XP, too…

    First short impressions:

    () It crashes a lot. I know it’s beta, but after a couple of minutes - BANG! and it closes.

    This is likely to be fixed when it goes from beta-stage to final, but for now it’s a bit unusable for serious work…

    () Font rendering looks a bit odd to a Windows user, yes. It’s Apple-style, but I believe this was the idea behind it, and this is why I like it (I am a CSS designer, after all, so a real preview on Safari is great!) ;-)

    Still, being able to compare anti-aliasing in Safari and in all of my other Windows apps (Firefox, Windows itself, etc.), I can’t close my eyes to the fact that Windows’ ClearType looks to me much better. Letters are thinner and look clearer when using ClearType. Maybe there’s a difference in Safari/Win and Safari/Mac, dunno.

    (I allowed myself to make two screenshots of your previous article — the first is Safari 3.0/Win and the second is Firefox 1.5/Win — and to publish them in a short review on my blog, with first impressions from Safari Beta on Win; I apologize, the post is in Bulgarian, but you can see the screens right there:-)

    For me it’s easier to read text in ClearType. I wonder, though, what’ll come in Leopard? :)

    () Integrated SessionSaver, like in Firefox 2.0? (In FF 1.5 - available as an extension).

    As a beta, Safari should have at least some basic ability to save all open tabs on close (and on crash, too;-) …I poked around the preferences, but didn’t find this option?

    (3 minutes later)

    Actually, in preferences -> general, I’ve found an option: When starting, open: /blank page, or /home page, or /same page, or /bookmarks

    …I tried finally BOOKMARKS (I was guessing that this is what is the equivalent for “Restore all open tabs when starting the browser” (in Firefox) and…

    …now I can’t start Safari at all :-(

    Crashes 100% of the times!

    Now uninstall -> new install…

    Nope, didn’t work, same crash… I guess, I’ll have to delete some settings to make it work again :-(

    (Five minutes later)

    Found it!

    C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\Apple Computer\Safari\

    Delete all files (storing Safari’s preferences) in this folder…

    …and now you can use it again!

    So… final impression would be:

    () Unstable, unstable, unstable… :-)

    …for now :-/

    Apart from that, pretty fast browser (I can open new tabs even faster than in FF); loads pages pretty fast too…

    Let us hope Apple will make it more appealing by making it more stable! :-)

    Cheers, my $ 0.02:)

    — PS WinXP Pro SP2, Pentium 4 HT 2.6 GHz, 1 gig of RAM (2x512) :)

  9. @Roger Johansson In a clarification of what Jonathan said. Try dragging a tab downwards or upwards from the tabs bar. It will morph into a little thumbnail view and upon releasing your mouse button it will expand to its own window. Dragging tabs to the tabs bar of other windows allows to add them to that window. I know that CSSEdit for example does the exact same thing.

  10. @Michel In my opinion the font rendering/smoothing in Safari (and Mac in general) is far superiour to the ClearType of Windows. But that might be a personal thing.

  11. @Lode:

    Of course, it is personal:)

    But when I see compared ClearType in Windows and (now that I have access to Safari’s font rendering) Safari’s way of anti-aliasing fonts, I see a very clear difference…

    1) ClearType leaves letters very thin, while making them much better readable, than standard Windows font-smoothing, while…

    2) Safari makes letters bolder, in a way. I can compare that to a graphite pencil;-) Letters are readable, as well, yes; but they are somewhat fatter, and a bit blurrier, than when ClearType is used. Just compare the screenshots. The difference is very subtle, but it’s present:)

    Still, maybe on Mac things look better, I don’t know…

    Maybe if I can compare real tiny letters, then difference will be better seen:)

    Cheers:)

  12. The funny thing I’ve noticed is that in Safari there is no ‘Quick Contacts’ section in Gmail.. it’s just does not work at all. This way I have to use FF to have all functionality provided by google. Did anyone investigate it?

  13. Installed it and …

    a) Font smoothing is not nice (to me “hideous” seems the more appropriate word) on Safari as rendered on my system,

    b) When I want to do anything at all with bookmarks … it crashes,

    c) If I enter anything in the location bar and hit return … it crashes,

    d) Before I updated to the latest beta (today), any Google page had approx. 50px of space inserted into any search result title, but now I can’t check, because I can’t get to a Google page anymore … yeah, it crashes.

    e) … there’s lots more (like h1 titles not displayed accurately on most web pages), but I’ll refrain.

    I checked the Safari for Win beta forums and just noticed that if anyone criticizes the program, one is yelled at, but in my I don’t know how many years of PC experience, I’ve never, ever had such a buggy Beta version on my machine. Not even anything by Microsoft. Even pre-beta stuff I helped with was more stable than this thing.

    Still, kudos to the team for putting Safari for Win out there.

    I’ll wait until it has reached final release status. It’ll be nice to have a fast browser and the ability to get a Safari preview when developing web pages.

  14. Hi all, the only thing I have noticed to be a bit buggy are: 1. form legends I have aligned to the left seem to be centered in my fieldsets and.. 2. none of my embeded Google Maps on my web sites seem to point to the correct location.

    I am not the greatest coder in the world, so it may be me, but they all work in many, many other browsers (even Safari 2). Anyone else seeing these issues?

  15. Hm, “Save as…” surely was available in Safari 2 as well, by pressing the ALT-key down to display the alternative items in the contextual menu? Ie. right click an image, press ALT and you should see ” Save to…” change to “Save as…”, if my memory serves me right. But at least in 3.0 beta it is always available as a separate menu item.

  16. @Lode: After reading your comment #9, I tried dragging tabs away from the tab bar in Safari 3 for Windows and it worked!! I think it’s a great feature if you’re a hardcore web surfer. :)

    @Anton Andreasson: That’s interesting. Now I know that I’m not the only person who is loving the Windows version of Safari 3 Beta!

    I’m yet to face a bug. I did notice a slight difference in the way Safari renders sFIR headings on my blog but I’m sure that it’s not the fault of Safari. I think I’ll have to re-configure the sIFR script.

    I tested Safari also on a test machine (Celeron 2.4GHz + 128MB RAM) and was surprised to see the performance. If I run Firefox 2.0 on my test machine with 4 or 5 tabs open in a single window, it almost kills my test machine but Safari was pretty stable and fast even with 10+ tabs open.

    I was really shocked to see the test results because Apple is officially advertising that Safari requires a minimum of 256 MB of memory and a system with at least a 500 MHz Intel Pentium processor.

    -A2.0

  17. June 15, 2007 by Jonathan

    As Lode says, you can tear off tabs by dragging them down from the tab bar. You must not drag left or right before, as they will then just slide along the tab bar. Anyway, just try and you’ll get it, it’s simple. :)

    I did explain it better the first time I tried to post, but then Safari 3 crashed on submit and I was just too tired to write it all again. :(

    The feature is shown briefly in the movie at apple.com/safari .

  18. June 15, 2007 by Ingo Chao

    The Win Webkit nightly build r23540 solved some of the font problems I had (I can see text now!). Although the Menu drop downs are compressed.

    The Web Inspector does open on rightclick “Inspect Element”. Node view does not work.

    Text zoom does work with ctrl+/-/0 (keypad, not numpad).

    Very fast.

    Crashes when previewing this Comment.

  19. June 15, 2007 by Emil

    Is it possible to install Safari 3 and keep Safari 2 on Mac OSX? As a web developer I don’t want to lose my test environment as many people will use Safari 2 for a long time….

  20. In my comment #8 I gave a link to a short non-translated post in my blog, with a couple of short impressions on Safari 3.0, including visual comparison of 456BereaStreet - how it looks in Safari 3.0/Win with Mac font smoothing and Firefox 1.5 with WinXP ClearType.

    I apologize for the non-translated text, but now I can repair my ‘mistake’:

    Safari 3.0 and font smoothing

    :-)

    Cheers, Michel

    PS I’d like to write more, as I keep testing this new (on Windows) browser for me, but Safari keeps crashing - hitting ‘tab’ to go through comments form, pressing buttons.. I usually need 2 minutes to make it close:) Waiting for a new beta?…

  21. right click an image, press ALT and you should see ” Save to…” change to “Save as…”

    Ahh, that would be the wonderful, intuitive Mac user interface that I’ve heard so much about.

    There’s a good post on the differences in font rendering between Apple & MS, and the reasons for them, at Joel on Software.

    I’m gonna give it a while for them to fix the most egregious bugs before I try it on my PC, but it sounds pretty interesting…

  22. @Chris Hunt:

    Interesting article, thx:)

    I’ll try to compare a few typefaces these days, side by side, now that Safari 3.0 is available for Win:) It’s a very interesting subject:)

  23. June 15, 2007 by Stevie D

    Clickable form labels

    Good grief, why has that only just been introduced? It’s been a standard feature on other browsers for as long as I can remember!

    Web Inspector

    I was really excited by this, until the “not available for Windows” bit…

    Reset font size. After using Cmd-+ to increase text size, you can now press Cmd-0 to reset it to 100%.

    Available in Opera since they started zooming.

    Tab reordering. Got your tabs in the wrong order? Rearrange them by dragging.

    Available in Opera for years.

    Save As… You can now choose where to save images or web pages that you save by right-clicking.

    Another “good grief” one … I’m astounded that that is being touted as a new feature.

    Inline Find. Safari now has a search feature similar to the one in Firefox, except sexier.

    I don’t know what I’m missing here, but what does this offer beyond the normal Ctrl+F feature? If it’s only cosmetics, I can’t pretend that I’m going to be all that bothered…

    Resizable textareas. Need a bigger box to type your comment? No problem. Just grab the lower right corner and resize it until you have enough room for whatever you are typing.

    That one does sound nice.

    How does it manage the other elements around it when you make the textarea bigger?

    More styling options for form controls. […] How about giving users the option to disallow styling of form controls?

    Opera gives much better options for what can and can’t be styled. I’m not sure whether this can be specified on a site-by-site basis, and not at my own PC so can’t check…

    Did you notice that you can also […] “extract” tabs to their own windows

    Already available in Opera.

    Their website clearly hasn’t been tested in IE6 - not a good way to encourage people to convert!

    I have to say that I was always keen to get my hands on Safari, but after the slating it has got for barely being fit for alpha, let alone beta, and the number of “new” features that we Opera users have had for centuries, it seems more and more like the only reason to download Safari/Win is to test my own websites on it.

  24. I see a lot of discussion about the text being too “fat” or bold in safari on windows. In the preferences you can adjust the font smoothing to light. Everything is easier to read after that.

  25. June 15, 2007 by DougWig

    With the Safari Windows Beta:

    1) I miss having tooltips! —I don’t see any tooltips showing the “title” attribute when you hover over a link, etc.

    2) Resizing a window seems to require using the ridged nub at the bottom right corner of the window (not always convenient).

    3) Safari wasn’t able to figure out what to do with Excel downloads (whereas Firefox would launch Excel)

    4) DOM Scripting: This is the only browser I’ve seen where adding 1000 options to a select list via the DOM is slightly faster when you DON’T use a document fragment (IE is many times faster when you use a fragment).

    Nevertheless, if the rendering engine is the same as the MAC version (not sure it is) it’s nice to be able to check your markup without buying a MAC.

  26. June 15, 2007 by Calophi

    Stevie D: I don’t understand why, just because some of these features are already implemented elsewhere, we shouldn’t be happy about them being in Safari. It just astounds me that people have to be so pessimistic about that sort of thing. It was the same with IE7, really.

    Look. People have their browser of choice, and some people - like myself - find each browser useful for different things. When one is improved with more useful features, the response should be, “Finally! This will make the browser even better!” not, “Man, this is already done elsewhere, why even bother to improve your browser?”

  27. @kramer (comment #25):

    True. I even played with the options for font smoothing yesterday. Text is never crisp in Safari, no matter what the setting is.

    Text is always blurier…

    Yes, I now know why Apple did that, art, typography and all… and still, to me ClearType is what is says: Clear! Reading on the screen can be pain and readin with ClearType activated for me is a bit better than the other technology by Apple…

    (No flame wars intended, just noticing what looks better for me:-)

    I’ve seen the difference especially for fonts like Courier New, etc.

    …Or maybe it’s just a matter of being used to it, who knows? But when Microsofr went from standard font smoothing effect in Win98 to ClearType in WinXP the difference was enormous:)

    I still like it more…

    Maybe I’ll need more use of Safari/Win to compare everything better, though… :)

  28. (@Roger: (short notice))

    Could you please later edit #comment8 …with my updated link in comment #comment21 ( (http://www.optimiced.com/en/2007/06/14/apple-safari-3-beta-for-windows/#more-105)

    …because the first one still leads to my untranslated version and the second is in English now, as it should be, thx a bunch! :-)

    [you may delete this notice later:-)]

  29. I am really glad Apple release Safari for Windows because now I can do cross-browser compatibility testing on Safari without buying a MAC. According to some tests it seems that its slower then Firefox.

  30. I installed it today and I like it. Cool chrome ;-)

    The installation and operation was flawless, fast, and easy. Gladly I report that 100% of my designs render perfectly with it. Gotta love that!

  31. Sorry, I probably should have added I downloaded the Windows version.

  32. June 16, 2007 by Stevie D

    Calophi

    I don’t understand why, just because some of these features are already implemented elsewhere, we shouldn’t be happy about them being in Safari. It just astounds me that people have to be so pessimistic about that sort of thing. It was the same with IE7, really.

    Because by playing catch-up, you’re never going to win. When there is a big new release of a major browser, I want to see stuff that’s new. The only new experiences that it seems people installing Safari/Win are going to get are: i) loss of all standard Windows widgets, making the application difficult to use; ii) different font rendering, which a lot of people don’t like; iii) lots of restarting between crashes.

    IE7 was obsolete even before it was launched, when you looked at it alongside Opera and Firefox. They had had 5 years to work on it, and hadn’t managed to come close to catching up, let alone moving things forwards.

    I think it’s great that Apple have at last released Safari/Win, I just think it’s a shame that - from what I’ve read - there’s not an awful lot beyond the fact of it that’s innovative. Given that Apple tout it as a super-duper browser, to find that its new stuff is old hat is quite disappointing.

    When I have time, I will give it a try, and maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised to find that there are new and exciting features. But right now, it looks like Apple might have been better off telling everyone to download Opera instead.

  33. June 16, 2007 by John Bjerke

    I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to close windows without javascript. I can use apple+w just fine on windows and tabs. Has anyone else experienced the same problem?

  34. June 16, 2007 by Wulf

    It seems to me as if Safari 3 is just playing catch-up with Firefox.

    • Clickable form labels: Catch-up. Already available in “most other browsers”, as noted by Roger.
    • Web Inspector: Catch-up. Available in Firefox via the Firebug extension since January 12, 2006, as noted by Roger.
    • Reset font size: Catch-up. Available in Firefox since version 1.0 (released November 9, 2004).
    • Tab reordering: Catch-up. Available in Firefox since version 1.5 (released November 29, 2005).
    • Save As…: Catch-up. I can’t think of any other browser that lacks this feature.
    • Inline Find: Catch-up (for the most part). Inline Find has been available in Firefox since version 1.0. I must admit, however, that Safari handles it differently. I’ll have to use it a bit more before I decide which implementation I prefer (and I bet there’ll be a Firefox extension for this soon if a lot of people like it…).
    • Resizable textareas: Catch-up. Available as a Firefox extension since October 29, 2006. (Resizeable Textarea, Resizeable Form Fields.)

    It should also be noted that there was a zero-day threat for Safari 3 within hours of its release.

    So, I’ll be sticking with Firefox for now.

  35. June 16, 2007 by Abilash

    hi, its really great working on Safari in windows, pretty fast, but i noticed an issue when i try to preview my web page in Safari the required page is not opening, instead it lands on default home page of the safari.

    Do any of you encounted this problem, any solutions help me out…

    Thanks

  36. June 16, 2007 by Roger Johansson (Author comment)

    John:

    I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to close windows without javascript.

    Turned out to be yet another extension conflict. I had forgotten about Taboo, a plugin that displays a warning when you attempt to close a window with multiple tabs. After I removed that, closing windows works properly again.

  37. About that Mac GUI stuff on Windows - well it’s an Apple thing - iTunes, Quicktime - they all look the same (Mac GUI, not Windows) ;)

  38. June 17, 2007 by mamo

    it seems to me that you won’t need taboo with safari 3, since it has the ‘closing multiple tabs disclaimer’ incorporated

  39. June 17, 2007 by Rob. E

    Most people complaining about missing features and how Safari looks are completely missing the point. There is only one single reason why Safari was released for Windows. And that is to develop “apps” for the iPhone. Because Apple haven’t released a SDK for the iPhone instead they use the Webkit together with Safari as a SDK for the iPhone. So whatever runs on Safari 3 (minus flash and some other plugins) will run on the iPhone.

    The only big complain I have about Safari is that they should have tested it more thoroughly. It crashes on launch for many inclusive me and crashes just by accessing the Bookmark menu. And I am not alone with this problem.

    On my main Mac I haven’t installed Safari 3 yet and I will wait for quite some time before I do. I remember how bad the early betas were on Mac. :D

    //Rob

  40. I dont have a mac. I was looking forward to safari on Windows until I downloaded and installed it.

    • Fast, but where are my headlines?

    • Crashes all the time especially with pretty standard js like autocompletion.

    Uninstalled. Waiting for next release. Back to Opera.

  41. June 18, 2007 by Michael

    I’ve used Opera on windows for ten years now. (Since v2.something) Over the years I’ve tested most big-name browsers released on windows.

    I think Safari on windows is good for several reasons:

    • Safari has good support for webstandards, more browsers with webstandards benefits us all.

    • You don’t have to own a mac to test your website in Safari.

    That said, this beta release really didn’t impress me. As several others have pointed out, it lacks in the feature department.

    And not using the windows gui is a big no no for me. And the reason I’ve really not liked any other apple software on windows so far.

    But a stable final release of Safari will still be installed on my machine since I see it as needed for web development testing.

  42. June 18, 2007 by Tiago Silva

    Is it crashing on MathML as well on your systems?

  43. June 18, 2007 by Andy

    Safari Stand works in my Safari 3 beta. :)

  44. We had some problems at my agency with the moo fx (most notably the sliding list animations) not working correctly in the new Safari beta. Anyone else see this? Any suggestions?

  45. In my limited experience (I’ve just returned from vacation yesterday, aka had 24 hours to test it), Safari is absolutely god awful on Windows.

    Problem 1. conform to the Windows design standards. At least offer a native UI option because Safari (and iTunes/Quicktime) look horrendous on Windows.

    Problem 2. The window for Safari never remembers the last size/location when I close it. Small thing, but it’s very annoying.

    Problem 3. the anti-aliasing in Safari looks horrendous inside Windows. Why not just use Window’s clear type?

    It’s a start, but it’s still has miles to go before it’s even on the same plain as Firefox.

  46. FYI, the web inspector is include in the nightly webkit builds for Windows, but unfortunately it does not work yet.

  47. I was a little bit skeptical at first about the Windows version of Safari. I thought that it could certainly speed up some of my testing a bit if both the Mac and Windows versions were properly forked in the code base.

    After installing it last week on my Windows XP box, I think that I have started to really like Safari on Windows. It is really fast and kind of makes me feel like I am on a Mac (even though I use Firefox on my Mac more than Safari). I would have to say that this is a really nice browser and I take my hat off to Apple for creating a nice alternative to IE on Windows. :)

  48. In windows, It crashes while hovering over form elements and I can’t see strong tagged words.

  49. June 22, 2007 by Ales

    So, I heard safari came out. I figured I’d give the windows version of their browser a try. I was running the latest version of zoomtext, and it didn’t work with that. Happens sometimes so I’m used to it. Okay. Time to whip out the last option, jaws. I restart the browser and try and move around. Three keystrokes in, and it crashes. I restart and same problem.

    Lot less exciting than I expected.

  50. Another bug I found, if you’re downloading something and then you control + w to close the main window it cancels/closes the download as well. In Firefox you can start a download, close the main window, and then Firefox will close at the completion of the download (which is a bit more logical right?)

  51. June 23, 2007 by Rob. E

    There is a b2 version vailable now for both Mac and Windows. It seems to have fixed some of the crashing bugs.

    //Rob

  52. June 24, 2007 by Gsol

    Hooray for clickable form labels!

    I don’t like the styled form controls. It seems quite jarring seeing blue submit buttons and dropdown lists in Verdana. Definitely needs an option to turn it off.

  53. A new Web Inspector has been released and now available even in the Windows nightly build.

  54. July 6, 2007 by Chris Phillips

    Safari 3 beta on Win XP has a DOM related bug when javascript computes {element}.childNodes.length . Safari is counting whitespace as a #text node when it should not.

    For example Opera9, Firefox2, IE6 & 7, Flock, Sea Monkey and every other browser returns 4 childNodes while Safari 3 for PC returns 9 on the following DOM. —remove the hashes #

    <#div id=”parent” >

    <#div><#a>some link<#/a><#/div>

    <#div>some text<#/div>

    <#div>some text<#/div>

    <#div>some text<#/div>

    <#/div>

    I think getting DOM and javascript 100% correct is very important in a modern browser as browsers are frequently used for distributed application frameworks with Web2.0 and AJAX .

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