Firefox investigation

Robert Nyman gives an excellent example of what can happen when project managers who do not know about web standards run the show and decide to start a Firefox investigation. Great. Straight back to the browser war days of browser sniffing and forked code.

All I can do is sigh deeply and shake my head at the ignorance. Unfortunately the scenario Robert describes is all too common in Sweden. The web industry here is completely dominated by Microsoft worshippers who just don’t want to accept that there is a growing number of people using other browsers, and that they can target all browsers by learning to use web standards.

Posted on September 1, 2005 in Quicklinks, Web Standards


  1. September 2, 2005 by Teddy Zetterlund

    Couldn’t be more happy about the project I’m currently a programmer in. Everyone have Mac computers and therefore Safari or Firefox as the browser. And everyone knows the problems all browsers and their version give us.

  2. I watch the same scenario in Poland. Web standards seem to not exist for ‘web developpers’. All sites follow the same pattern - tables, formatting in the code with deprecated attributes, no doctype (well, it appears from time to time but again not in ‘full’ version), content embedded in flash and so on.

  3. I think the only way is to inform the decision makers and project managers in a non-technical way described at Robert’s article.

    Also to influence the makers of CMS systems is very important as most websites today is built with CMS systems.

    I try my best to influence our decision makers at my work and the company who is building our CMS system. I do not win all the battles, but hopefully will I win the war :D

  4. September 2, 2005 by Roger Johansson (Author comment)

    Teddy: You’re a lucky guy ;-)

    Jens: Yeah how is that coming along? I have evaluated the CMS you’re using and I am not happy with it. WYSIWYG template building and inline styles seem “slightly” backward to me. But maybe there are ways to avoid that?

  5. September 2, 2005 by Mats Lindblad

    I have some scary links for y’all … in my blog (in swedish though)

  6. The progress is going fine. Still a lot of things that we would like to improve. WYSIWYG is a really pain to work with, no matter what. I was hoping for a power-user gui for the ones who want to build with quality. WYSIWYG is fine for all that do not care about standards and inline styles. No, there is no way today to remove the inline styles, yuk :(

  7. I don’t think you’re doing anybody any favors by blaming all the wrongs of the world on “Microsoft worshippers”. Ignorance is a pretty universal thing, and applies equally whether you’re a Linux-head or a Macintosh-hipster. As long as most customers (and most of the world, in fact) use IE, we have to develop sites with IE in mind. After all, these are the ones that pay our rent. Granted, it’s Microsoft fault that our job is so god damn hard and tiresome. But don’t blame Microsoft for all the poor craftsmanship and lack of knowledge out there, that’s down to the lazy and the dilletantes.

  8. September 2, 2005 by Roger Johansson (Author comment)

    Jens: Can’t say I’m surprised.

    Ivan: Sure we have to develop with IE in mind, but there is no reason to develop for IE (or any specific browser) only, which is what this is about.

  9. I have been finding when developing with standards in mind, instead of IE, I’ve been saving my self buttloads of time. I’ve been developing a JavaScript/AJAX slideshow player and have been focused on having web standards in mind when I wrote the code. When it came to test it in other browsers it worked in all I tested but one … Safari. To fix that I moved one line of code. Web Standards is brilliant.

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